1 00:00:05,590 --> 00:00:03,350 okay here is our interview with mayoko 2 00:00:06,950 --> 00:00:05,600 i assume that in writing the book you 3 00:00:10,150 --> 00:00:06,960 wanted the focus to be 4 00:00:11,509 --> 00:00:10,160 on what the state of being a female in 5 00:00:14,910 --> 00:00:11,519 the u.s military is 6 00:00:16,070 --> 00:00:14,920 these days especially in in combat 7 00:00:19,029 --> 00:00:16,080 situations 8 00:00:19,910 --> 00:00:19,039 yeah i think that's exactly what i was 9 00:00:23,429 --> 00:00:19,920 hoping was 10 00:00:25,429 --> 00:00:23,439 to give the reader a better idea about 11 00:00:28,390 --> 00:00:25,439 what it was like just in the day-to-day 12 00:00:29,750 --> 00:00:28,400 something that was truer to life than 13 00:00:31,269 --> 00:00:29,760 you know kind of the snippets you see in 14 00:00:34,069 --> 00:00:31,279 commercials or 15 00:00:35,910 --> 00:00:34,079 the stereotypes that are you know kind 16 00:00:36,229 --> 00:00:35,920 of out there for what military life is 17 00:00:37,910 --> 00:00:36,239 like 18 00:00:40,549 --> 00:00:37,920 to to put a little bit more human and 19 00:00:44,069 --> 00:00:40,559 personal approach on it i think because 20 00:00:46,150 --> 00:00:44,079 there were some boring days there were 21 00:00:48,069 --> 00:00:46,160 there were funny little everyday kind of 22 00:00:49,910 --> 00:00:48,079 things that happened 23 00:00:51,350 --> 00:00:49,920 uh that make it maybe not like the 24 00:00:53,430 --> 00:00:51,360 action movie most people 25 00:00:55,670 --> 00:00:53,440 think about when they think about war 26 00:00:57,510 --> 00:00:55,680 yeah well i think it's fascinating 27 00:00:58,950 --> 00:00:57,520 anytime spent in a combat zone is 28 00:01:01,349 --> 00:00:58,960 fascinating in and of itself 29 00:01:03,029 --> 00:01:01,359 and then to be a female in combat zone 30 00:01:05,830 --> 00:01:03,039 especially when 31 00:01:06,630 --> 00:01:05,840 that was kind of somewhat new i mean to 32 00:01:08,710 --> 00:01:06,640 have a woman 33 00:01:09,910 --> 00:01:08,720 in the position that you were in i mean 34 00:01:14,149 --> 00:01:09,920 how new was that 35 00:01:16,550 --> 00:01:14,159 at the time that you were there 36 00:01:18,950 --> 00:01:16,560 well you know there's kind of been a 37 00:01:22,710 --> 00:01:18,960 long history of 38 00:01:24,789 --> 00:01:22,720 uh releasing spaces and jobs to women 39 00:01:26,149 --> 00:01:24,799 in the military that are in various 40 00:01:27,429 --> 00:01:26,159 combat roles 41 00:01:29,910 --> 00:01:27,439 and there's been a lot of controversy 42 00:01:32,390 --> 00:01:29,920 over that because a lot of the 43 00:01:34,069 --> 00:01:32,400 more recent opening of jobs said okay 44 00:01:35,270 --> 00:01:34,079 now you can be in the battle space or 45 00:01:37,270 --> 00:01:35,280 now you can be 46 00:01:39,749 --> 00:01:37,280 in a position where the primary job of 47 00:01:42,789 --> 00:01:39,759 the unit is to engage the enemy 48 00:01:45,030 --> 00:01:42,799 but if you look back to before that 49 00:01:47,830 --> 00:01:45,040 a truck driver's primary job isn't to 50 00:01:50,310 --> 00:01:47,840 engage the enemy it's to move cargo 51 00:01:51,670 --> 00:01:50,320 but if someone shoots at you all of a 52 00:01:52,630 --> 00:01:51,680 sudden you become a part of the battle 53 00:01:54,550 --> 00:01:52,640 space 54 00:01:57,030 --> 00:01:54,560 and so then all of a sudden that idea 55 00:01:59,350 --> 00:01:57,040 that that's not your primary function 56 00:02:00,469 --> 00:01:59,360 it doesn't really matter because all of 57 00:02:02,950 --> 00:02:00,479 a sudden it brings you 58 00:02:04,069 --> 00:02:02,960 into what you're there for and what's 59 00:02:07,109 --> 00:02:04,079 going on anyway 60 00:02:08,949 --> 00:02:07,119 and so in a way i think the american 61 00:02:10,630 --> 00:02:08,959 public has seen it to be 62 00:02:13,270 --> 00:02:10,640 more and more new i think it's been 63 00:02:16,550 --> 00:02:13,280 there since the revolutionary war 64 00:02:17,990 --> 00:02:16,560 and i think it's just women have been 65 00:02:19,750 --> 00:02:18,000 getting more credit 66 00:02:21,270 --> 00:02:19,760 and it's just become more and more open 67 00:02:23,350 --> 00:02:21,280 in a way that women could be 68 00:02:25,030 --> 00:02:23,360 seen in those roles in order to gain 69 00:02:27,110 --> 00:02:25,040 leadership roles 70 00:02:28,710 --> 00:02:27,120 and i think that's been a primary 71 00:02:31,350 --> 00:02:28,720 difference 72 00:02:32,229 --> 00:02:31,360 right so at the time of operation iraqi 73 00:02:35,589 --> 00:02:32,239 freedom 74 00:02:38,390 --> 00:02:35,599 and you were there at 2003 2004 75 00:02:41,110 --> 00:02:38,400 what what was permitted as far as women 76 00:02:42,949 --> 00:02:41,120 in combat roles 77 00:02:44,229 --> 00:02:42,959 uh there were a lot of areas that were 78 00:02:47,110 --> 00:02:44,239 not open yet 79 00:02:48,150 --> 00:02:47,120 so field artillery units there were 80 00:02:51,910 --> 00:02:48,160 still bans 81 00:02:54,869 --> 00:02:51,920 for women whose primary job was 82 00:02:55,430 --> 00:02:54,879 to engage the enemy although there were 83 00:02:59,110 --> 00:02:55,440 always 84 00:03:01,190 --> 00:02:59,120 interesting exceptions so in afghanistan 85 00:03:03,830 --> 00:03:01,200 where they had female engagement teams 86 00:03:07,910 --> 00:03:03,840 who worked side by side with 87 00:03:09,030 --> 00:03:07,920 you know infantry or special forces 88 00:03:10,869 --> 00:03:09,040 operations 89 00:03:12,790 --> 00:03:10,879 well their primary job was to engage the 90 00:03:15,190 --> 00:03:12,800 rural women in afghanistan in order to 91 00:03:17,589 --> 00:03:15,200 gain intelligence that was a part of the 92 00:03:19,270 --> 00:03:17,599 combat operation so they were side by 93 00:03:20,869 --> 00:03:19,280 side in the space but that wasn't their 94 00:03:22,309 --> 00:03:20,879 primary job but it was still a very 95 00:03:23,910 --> 00:03:22,319 dangerous job 96 00:03:25,750 --> 00:03:23,920 and so there were these little 97 00:03:27,430 --> 00:03:25,760 exceptions a lot like that the army had 98 00:03:28,789 --> 00:03:27,440 a cultural team that functioned 99 00:03:31,030 --> 00:03:28,799 similarly 100 00:03:32,070 --> 00:03:31,040 uh but yeah no at the time there was 101 00:03:35,430 --> 00:03:32,080 still this idea 102 00:03:36,630 --> 00:03:35,440 that uh women weren't in combat 103 00:03:38,710 --> 00:03:36,640 even though you know that couldn't have 104 00:03:39,589 --> 00:03:38,720 been further from the truth and and what 105 00:03:42,789 --> 00:03:39,599 is the current 106 00:03:46,149 --> 00:03:42,799 status today is there any limitations on 107 00:03:48,869 --> 00:03:46,159 women's ability to serve in combat roles 108 00:03:50,869 --> 00:03:48,879 uh it's it's basically open but 109 00:03:52,550 --> 00:03:50,879 individual service branches can file 110 00:03:55,910 --> 00:03:52,560 different exceptions 111 00:03:57,350 --> 00:03:55,920 uh and i think they have but most of 112 00:03:59,589 --> 00:03:57,360 those are 113 00:04:00,949 --> 00:03:59,599 for all practical purposes going away 114 00:04:03,030 --> 00:04:00,959 because 115 00:04:04,869 --> 00:04:03,040 uh at the time that a few women passed 116 00:04:09,030 --> 00:04:04,879 the army rangers course 117 00:04:10,789 --> 00:04:09,040 uh once that once that starts to happen 118 00:04:12,309 --> 00:04:10,799 that's that's really going to open that 119 00:04:14,550 --> 00:04:12,319 up and and 120 00:04:15,750 --> 00:04:14,560 lead the way for that to just continue 121 00:04:19,590 --> 00:04:15,760 to happen 122 00:04:22,469 --> 00:04:19,600 so virtually most jobs are 123 00:04:24,150 --> 00:04:22,479 open now uh practically we're just 124 00:04:24,950 --> 00:04:24,160 seeing women complete the courses to 125 00:04:27,990 --> 00:04:24,960 actually 126 00:04:30,950 --> 00:04:28,000 get into those jobs yeah so navy 127 00:04:31,510 --> 00:04:30,960 seals i think we've had one or more 128 00:04:37,110 --> 00:04:31,520 women 129 00:04:40,629 --> 00:04:39,030 army army rangers you're saying also 130 00:04:43,909 --> 00:04:40,639 have females 131 00:04:46,070 --> 00:04:43,919 and then uh officer infantry uh 132 00:04:48,150 --> 00:04:46,080 women have passed that course also and 133 00:04:51,270 --> 00:04:48,160 and even fighter pilots 134 00:04:54,310 --> 00:04:51,280 yeah yep so 135 00:04:54,870 --> 00:04:54,320 what so what tell us about your time in 136 00:04:57,990 --> 00:04:54,880 iraq 137 00:05:01,430 --> 00:04:58,000 in a combat zone as a woman in 138 00:05:05,350 --> 00:05:03,590 uh you know i don't know if my 139 00:05:07,990 --> 00:05:05,360 challenges were a lot different than 140 00:05:11,029 --> 00:05:08,000 most the men who were there kind of in 141 00:05:14,550 --> 00:05:11,039 the same space i think it's a 142 00:05:16,390 --> 00:05:14,560 it's a very dynamic environment uh 143 00:05:19,029 --> 00:05:16,400 never really know what's going to happen 144 00:05:20,550 --> 00:05:19,039 and there are you know long periods of 145 00:05:21,990 --> 00:05:20,560 doing a lot of other things and then 146 00:05:24,070 --> 00:05:22,000 there are these short periods of 147 00:05:26,790 --> 00:05:24,080 activity where 148 00:05:27,909 --> 00:05:26,800 in in retrospect seem to stretch on for 149 00:05:30,950 --> 00:05:27,919 long periods of time 150 00:05:31,909 --> 00:05:30,960 if that makes sense at all those bigger 151 00:05:34,710 --> 00:05:31,919 moments 152 00:05:36,230 --> 00:05:34,720 do seem to slow down in time but as a 153 00:05:38,629 --> 00:05:36,240 woman 154 00:05:39,590 --> 00:05:38,639 probably not that much different i don't 155 00:05:43,029 --> 00:05:39,600 know 156 00:05:45,189 --> 00:05:43,039 of my 157 00:05:46,550 --> 00:05:45,199 male battle buddies they would have said 158 00:05:47,749 --> 00:05:46,560 you know thank god i was a man it was 159 00:05:48,950 --> 00:05:47,759 much easier 160 00:05:50,870 --> 00:05:48,960 i don't know if that would have been the 161 00:05:53,189 --> 00:05:50,880 case at all actually 162 00:05:54,070 --> 00:05:53,199 nobody wants to get hurt nobody wants to 163 00:05:56,469 --> 00:05:54,080 be captured 164 00:05:58,150 --> 00:05:56,479 nobody wants to die everybody wants to 165 00:06:01,270 --> 00:05:58,160 make sure that their buddies okay 166 00:06:02,070 --> 00:06:01,280 that's probably uh the number one fear 167 00:06:04,469 --> 00:06:02,080 is 168 00:06:06,230 --> 00:06:04,479 making sure you take care of the person 169 00:06:09,110 --> 00:06:06,240 you're kind of entrusted to drive with 170 00:06:10,629 --> 00:06:09,120 be with be a battle buddy too how would 171 00:06:13,830 --> 00:06:10,639 you describe the morale 172 00:06:15,430 --> 00:06:13,840 of our troops in iraqi freedom did 173 00:06:18,309 --> 00:06:15,440 the people you know obviously it's soon 174 00:06:21,350 --> 00:06:18,319 after 9 11 there's a lot of patriotism 175 00:06:23,670 --> 00:06:21,360 uh in the wake of 9 11 um 176 00:06:24,710 --> 00:06:23,680 we invaded afghanistan and everybody 177 00:06:28,230 --> 00:06:24,720 thought that that 178 00:06:31,110 --> 00:06:28,240 was a natural outgrowth of 179 00:06:32,070 --> 00:06:31,120 since we had to go get al qaeda and then 180 00:06:35,350 --> 00:06:32,080 iraq 181 00:06:36,309 --> 00:06:35,360 kind of fell in next in line sort of 182 00:06:37,990 --> 00:06:36,319 being brought into 183 00:06:39,430 --> 00:06:38,000 the war on terror even though there was 184 00:06:40,550 --> 00:06:39,440 a lot of debate as to whether they 185 00:06:42,550 --> 00:06:40,560 really 186 00:06:44,070 --> 00:06:42,560 were someone that we should be fighting 187 00:06:46,550 --> 00:06:44,080 in a war on terror 188 00:06:47,590 --> 00:06:46,560 um would you say that the morale was 189 00:06:50,390 --> 00:06:47,600 very high among 190 00:06:52,469 --> 00:06:50,400 everyone there that we were there for 191 00:06:55,909 --> 00:06:52,479 the right cause 192 00:06:58,309 --> 00:06:55,919 i think it was for us at the time 193 00:07:00,710 --> 00:06:58,319 i think for people who went back for 194 00:07:03,350 --> 00:07:00,720 subsequent tours 195 00:07:05,670 --> 00:07:03,360 probably don't have that same experience 196 00:07:07,749 --> 00:07:05,680 again and again because 197 00:07:09,589 --> 00:07:07,759 you know i think that first tour was was 198 00:07:11,110 --> 00:07:09,599 really hard it was really long it was 199 00:07:14,150 --> 00:07:11,120 400 days 200 00:07:16,070 --> 00:07:14,160 uh so i think going back to the same 201 00:07:17,830 --> 00:07:16,080 space 202 00:07:19,510 --> 00:07:17,840 maybe seeing that not much more had been 203 00:07:19,990 --> 00:07:19,520 accomplished not much more land had been 204 00:07:22,309 --> 00:07:20,000 held 205 00:07:23,110 --> 00:07:22,319 not much more peace had been restored 206 00:07:24,870 --> 00:07:23,120 not much more 207 00:07:26,070 --> 00:07:24,880 clean water was available for the people 208 00:07:26,950 --> 00:07:26,080 there who were just trying to live their 209 00:07:28,309 --> 00:07:26,960 day-to-day 210 00:07:30,070 --> 00:07:28,319 there wasn't any work for anybody 211 00:07:31,670 --> 00:07:30,080 because there was a war going on 212 00:07:33,430 --> 00:07:31,680 so people were hungry they didn't have 213 00:07:34,469 --> 00:07:33,440 shelter as far as the civilian 214 00:07:35,909 --> 00:07:34,479 population there 215 00:07:38,390 --> 00:07:35,919 i think at some point that does really 216 00:07:39,510 --> 00:07:38,400 get disheartening but initially 217 00:07:41,430 --> 00:07:39,520 especially because i was there when 218 00:07:43,350 --> 00:07:41,440 saddam hussein was captured 219 00:07:46,469 --> 00:07:43,360 you know i think there was a lot of uh 220 00:07:49,909 --> 00:07:46,479 pride and patriotism and and camaraderie 221 00:07:52,950 --> 00:07:49,919 among us and there there wasn't 222 00:07:55,189 --> 00:07:52,960 any divisiveness as far as 223 00:07:58,070 --> 00:07:55,199 why we were there or any political 224 00:07:59,670 --> 00:07:58,080 aspect of it i think mostly because we 225 00:08:01,430 --> 00:07:59,680 all joined 226 00:08:03,270 --> 00:08:01,440 for the most part for the right reasons 227 00:08:04,869 --> 00:08:03,280 and we all joined knowingly 228 00:08:07,430 --> 00:08:04,879 might be called to do something just 229 00:08:09,510 --> 00:08:07,440 like that so it wasn't 230 00:08:11,430 --> 00:08:09,520 unexpected i think we were actually 231 00:08:15,670 --> 00:08:11,440 ready to go do the job 232 00:08:19,830 --> 00:08:18,950 so yeah i mean we deposed saddam very 233 00:08:22,309 --> 00:08:19,840 quickly 234 00:08:23,990 --> 00:08:22,319 right so that part of the war was over 235 00:08:24,790 --> 00:08:24,000 very quickly but then it was dealing 236 00:08:27,749 --> 00:08:24,800 with 237 00:08:28,390 --> 00:08:27,759 i guess insurgents uh kind of an 238 00:08:31,430 --> 00:08:28,400 internal 239 00:08:34,630 --> 00:08:31,440 civil war that essentially broke out 240 00:08:35,589 --> 00:08:34,640 with a vacuum of power right and 241 00:08:37,829 --> 00:08:35,599 actually when 242 00:08:39,589 --> 00:08:37,839 saddam hussein was captured we all 243 00:08:42,149 --> 00:08:39,599 thought we were going home 244 00:08:43,670 --> 00:08:42,159 we were all like hooray it's over we 245 00:08:47,110 --> 00:08:43,680 didn't have any idea that 246 00:08:50,389 --> 00:08:47,120 that was really just the beginning of 247 00:08:52,630 --> 00:08:50,399 what was going to be going on there that 248 00:08:55,030 --> 00:08:52,640 you know him being out of power in that 249 00:08:56,790 --> 00:08:55,040 moment wasn't going to solve 250 00:08:59,430 --> 00:08:56,800 the long-standing problems for 251 00:09:00,949 --> 00:08:59,440 governance and uh 252 00:09:02,710 --> 00:09:00,959 all of the social and economic problems 253 00:09:04,150 --> 00:09:02,720 for the people there that yes 254 00:09:06,150 --> 00:09:04,160 other terrorists would come in and fill 255 00:09:07,509 --> 00:09:06,160 that space or 256 00:09:09,509 --> 00:09:07,519 you know people just didn't have any 257 00:09:13,590 --> 00:09:09,519 autonomy or right to 258 00:09:15,030 --> 00:09:13,600 work to move to another town to uh 259 00:09:16,870 --> 00:09:15,040 because of all the other cultural 260 00:09:18,790 --> 00:09:16,880 factors so 261 00:09:20,550 --> 00:09:18,800 yeah i mean i think it was a surprise to 262 00:09:22,310 --> 00:09:20,560 a lot of us but we were probably naive 263 00:09:24,150 --> 00:09:22,320 yeah yeah so you were there when he was 264 00:09:25,990 --> 00:09:24,160 captured yeah 265 00:09:27,269 --> 00:09:26,000 and that must have been quite a party 266 00:09:29,030 --> 00:09:27,279 that night 267 00:09:31,269 --> 00:09:29,040 it really was i mean we all kind of 268 00:09:35,110 --> 00:09:31,279 heard the news break out through our 269 00:09:36,949 --> 00:09:35,120 radio channels and it was 270 00:09:39,190 --> 00:09:36,959 we literally thought we were all going 271 00:09:41,990 --> 00:09:39,200 home we thought the wall was over 272 00:09:43,590 --> 00:09:42,000 yeah and um wasn't and then he was hung 273 00:09:46,949 --> 00:09:43,600 in like the public square wasn't he 274 00:09:50,070 --> 00:09:46,959 yeah that i didn't see yeah 275 00:09:50,790 --> 00:09:50,080 crazy so and then how much longer were 276 00:09:55,350 --> 00:09:50,800 you 277 00:09:59,350 --> 00:09:55,360 still there after they captured saddam 278 00:10:03,030 --> 00:09:59,360 until uh the spring of the next year 279 00:10:06,710 --> 00:10:03,040 so actually quite a long time 280 00:10:09,670 --> 00:10:06,720 before we handed our space at al assad 281 00:10:13,110 --> 00:10:09,680 in kind of that northwest corner over to 282 00:10:14,470 --> 00:10:13,120 a marine infantry unit who took over the 283 00:10:17,670 --> 00:10:14,480 operations 284 00:10:20,949 --> 00:10:17,680 so already you were seeing things 285 00:10:24,470 --> 00:10:20,959 dragging on and on and on and and 286 00:10:27,829 --> 00:10:24,480 not being a smooth transition so was it 287 00:10:31,990 --> 00:10:27,839 starting to wear on your and your 288 00:10:34,310 --> 00:10:32,000 and everyone else's morale at that point 289 00:10:36,870 --> 00:10:34,320 kind of realizing that this thing is not 290 00:10:39,190 --> 00:10:36,880 going to end anytime soon 291 00:10:40,710 --> 00:10:39,200 well i think so uh i think that seemed 292 00:10:42,949 --> 00:10:40,720 to be a big part of the mission 293 00:10:44,470 --> 00:10:42,959 originally was that was you know 294 00:10:45,509 --> 00:10:44,480 capturing him and some of the other key 295 00:10:48,630 --> 00:10:45,519 leaders 296 00:10:52,310 --> 00:10:48,640 in his government seemed to be the focus 297 00:10:54,310 --> 00:10:52,320 uh so once that was over yeah i mean i 298 00:10:55,910 --> 00:10:54,320 i know that we expected to have a 299 00:10:57,030 --> 00:10:55,920 different sort of a transition we had a 300 00:10:59,590 --> 00:10:57,040 few other 301 00:11:01,269 --> 00:10:59,600 uh operations that were related to what 302 00:11:03,350 --> 00:11:01,279 we were doing that we were supporting as 303 00:11:05,190 --> 00:11:03,360 far as training police officers 304 00:11:06,949 --> 00:11:05,200 as far as training some of the iraqi 305 00:11:08,870 --> 00:11:06,959 guard uh 306 00:11:10,630 --> 00:11:08,880 holding prisoners and other things 307 00:11:14,150 --> 00:11:10,640 related to the security and 308 00:11:19,030 --> 00:11:14,160 the turnover uh and those were 309 00:11:20,870 --> 00:11:19,040 noticeably unsuccessful to us i think so 310 00:11:22,389 --> 00:11:20,880 i don't i don't know that we really 311 00:11:25,110 --> 00:11:22,399 talked about it at the time because at 312 00:11:28,069 --> 00:11:25,120 the time it was just 313 00:11:29,509 --> 00:11:28,079 we were it was very much the now looking 314 00:11:31,350 --> 00:11:29,519 back 315 00:11:32,710 --> 00:11:31,360 yeah i think we were we were getting 316 00:11:35,590 --> 00:11:32,720 tired uh 317 00:11:37,910 --> 00:11:35,600 being deployed for close to a year plus 318 00:11:39,750 --> 00:11:37,920 the bookends of you know going over and 319 00:11:41,590 --> 00:11:39,760 coming home and debriefing that that's a 320 00:11:44,630 --> 00:11:41,600 long time 321 00:11:46,710 --> 00:11:44,640 and what about fighting uh terrorism you 322 00:11:49,750 --> 00:11:46,720 had al-qaeda in iraq 323 00:11:53,030 --> 00:11:49,760 later became isis was that 324 00:11:54,389 --> 00:11:53,040 something that really was a big focus 325 00:11:58,310 --> 00:11:54,399 that you guys were trying to keep that 326 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:01,990 as far as what we were doing 327 00:12:05,590 --> 00:12:04,310 really supporting you know the war we 328 00:12:06,389 --> 00:12:05,600 were attached to the third armored 329 00:12:09,430 --> 00:12:06,399 cavalry 330 00:12:12,389 --> 00:12:09,440 so we were attached to you know the 331 00:12:13,190 --> 00:12:12,399 abrams tankers the bradleys and the 332 00:12:14,790 --> 00:12:13,200 apaches 333 00:12:16,310 --> 00:12:14,800 and we were the support function for 334 00:12:19,590 --> 00:12:16,320 them 335 00:12:21,430 --> 00:12:19,600 through their checkpoints their raids uh 336 00:12:23,509 --> 00:12:21,440 the gathering of their intelligence the 337 00:12:26,550 --> 00:12:23,519 collecting of weapons all of 338 00:12:28,230 --> 00:12:26,560 what they were doing yeah i think that 339 00:12:31,350 --> 00:12:28,240 that was their that was the primary 340 00:12:33,110 --> 00:12:31,360 mission and 341 00:12:35,750 --> 00:12:33,120 you know i just it just seemed like 342 00:12:38,310 --> 00:12:35,760 endless yeah there was always 343 00:12:39,590 --> 00:12:38,320 somebody else filling that space and 344 00:12:41,190 --> 00:12:39,600 whether they could be described as 345 00:12:42,310 --> 00:12:41,200 somebody connected to one of those 346 00:12:45,030 --> 00:12:42,320 groups or 347 00:12:45,590 --> 00:12:45,040 otherwise somewhat random or that was 348 00:12:47,670 --> 00:12:45,600 hard 349 00:12:51,590 --> 00:12:47,680 for us to know because there was 350 00:12:53,910 --> 00:12:51,600 definitely a variety of threats i'd say 351 00:12:55,670 --> 00:12:53,920 and then you know it stretches on and on 352 00:12:58,550 --> 00:12:55,680 and then obama came in 353 00:12:59,110 --> 00:12:58,560 and basically pulled us entirely out of 354 00:13:00,629 --> 00:12:59,120 iraq 355 00:13:02,069 --> 00:13:00,639 which obvi you know a lot of people 356 00:13:02,629 --> 00:13:02,079 questioned that move because then it 357 00:13:05,430 --> 00:13:02,639 seemed 358 00:13:07,350 --> 00:13:05,440 that isis really took hold after that 359 00:13:08,710 --> 00:13:07,360 move did you have any thoughts 360 00:13:10,470 --> 00:13:08,720 about that was having as somebody who 361 00:13:12,870 --> 00:13:10,480 had spent over a year there 362 00:13:15,590 --> 00:13:12,880 and to see us arguably abandon the 363 00:13:20,150 --> 00:13:18,470 i think that's that's mixed a mixed bag 364 00:13:21,990 --> 00:13:20,160 for me because 365 00:13:23,350 --> 00:13:22,000 kind of there's there's two competing 366 00:13:25,670 --> 00:13:23,360 things one 367 00:13:28,710 --> 00:13:25,680 of course any of this the space that was 368 00:13:30,790 --> 00:13:28,720 hard won and i mean hard one with blood 369 00:13:32,949 --> 00:13:30,800 you don't want to give it back you want 370 00:13:35,030 --> 00:13:32,959 to make sure that that 371 00:13:36,949 --> 00:13:35,040 has the right transition into what it 372 00:13:39,350 --> 00:13:36,959 was you hoped for it to be 373 00:13:41,189 --> 00:13:39,360 but at the same time some of the people 374 00:13:42,069 --> 00:13:41,199 who didn't get out after that deployment 375 00:13:49,189 --> 00:13:42,079 who went back 376 00:13:50,949 --> 00:13:49,199 four or five times i mean it devastated 377 00:13:52,710 --> 00:13:50,959 a lot of families too so without a 378 00:13:54,389 --> 00:13:52,720 larger pool of people 379 00:13:55,829 --> 00:13:54,399 who are willing to stand up and say hey 380 00:13:57,509 --> 00:13:55,839 you know what i believe in this too i 381 00:13:58,710 --> 00:13:57,519 want to be a part of it i want to join 382 00:14:00,389 --> 00:13:58,720 the military 383 00:14:01,829 --> 00:14:00,399 i want to be the next one on that 384 00:14:02,949 --> 00:14:01,839 deployment without a larger pool of 385 00:14:04,629 --> 00:14:02,959 those people 386 00:14:06,150 --> 00:14:04,639 i think it was taking a toll on the 387 00:14:09,030 --> 00:14:06,160 existing force 388 00:14:11,030 --> 00:14:09,040 and so what i didn't want to see was the 389 00:14:12,949 --> 00:14:11,040 force get so 390 00:14:14,550 --> 00:14:12,959 worn down so tired have so much 391 00:14:16,069 --> 00:14:14,560 attrition because after about the third 392 00:14:17,829 --> 00:14:16,079 deployment for most people people 393 00:14:20,550 --> 00:14:17,839 were starting to get out then you're 394 00:14:23,910 --> 00:14:20,560 replacing all this combat experience 395 00:14:25,990 --> 00:14:23,920 with brand new people because 396 00:14:27,590 --> 00:14:26,000 there wasn't enough rest time or you 397 00:14:29,269 --> 00:14:27,600 know in between somebody knew they were 398 00:14:30,949 --> 00:14:29,279 going to go back in a year so 399 00:14:32,389 --> 00:14:30,959 you know those two things are definitely 400 00:14:33,990 --> 00:14:32,399 competing 401 00:14:35,990 --> 00:14:34,000 i hate to see everybody pull out right 402 00:14:38,550 --> 00:14:36,000 away but at the same time 403 00:14:39,990 --> 00:14:38,560 hate to see the same people go back yeah 404 00:14:42,470 --> 00:14:40,000 a lot of that is kind of captured in 405 00:14:46,389 --> 00:14:42,480 american sniper which i assume you 406 00:14:49,990 --> 00:14:46,399 saw because uh he he was on multiple 407 00:14:50,470 --> 00:14:50,000 assignments and also you see them taking 408 00:14:52,790 --> 00:14:50,480 very 409 00:14:53,910 --> 00:14:52,800 as you say hard-fought ground i i think 410 00:14:56,870 --> 00:14:53,920 his fallujah was 411 00:14:57,269 --> 00:14:56,880 his major battle that's kind of there 412 00:15:00,230 --> 00:14:57,279 and 413 00:15:00,710 --> 00:15:00,240 it you know as you're watching the movie 414 00:15:02,069 --> 00:15:00,720 by that 415 00:15:04,310 --> 00:15:02,079 by the time the movie had come out i 416 00:15:06,230 --> 00:15:04,320 believe we had already left iraq and 417 00:15:07,350 --> 00:15:06,240 it had fallen back into isis hand so 418 00:15:08,870 --> 00:15:07,360 you're watching this movie you think oh 419 00:15:12,150 --> 00:15:08,880 my gosh this is 420 00:15:13,670 --> 00:15:12,160 so sad to see our soldiers dying 421 00:15:15,350 --> 00:15:13,680 to gain this land and then to know that 422 00:15:17,829 --> 00:15:15,360 we just abandoned it 423 00:15:19,269 --> 00:15:17,839 later but we also see the point that 424 00:15:21,910 --> 00:15:19,279 you're making which is that 425 00:15:22,629 --> 00:15:21,920 these guys were under major strain going 426 00:15:27,110 --> 00:15:22,639 on 427 00:15:30,150 --> 00:15:27,120 saw that same thing 428 00:15:31,509 --> 00:15:30,160 uh on tv when isis started coming back 429 00:15:33,990 --> 00:15:31,519 into northern iraq 430 00:15:35,590 --> 00:15:34,000 the same road i drove the same place 431 00:15:36,629 --> 00:15:35,600 where i could have stopped at a roadside 432 00:15:38,629 --> 00:15:36,639 stand and bought 433 00:15:39,829 --> 00:15:38,639 a tomato or a date if i would have 434 00:15:43,430 --> 00:15:39,839 wanted to or a block of 435 00:15:47,269 --> 00:15:43,440 ice that was relatively controlled space 436 00:15:51,110 --> 00:15:47,279 never really safe but to watch the 437 00:15:52,949 --> 00:15:51,120 insurgents roll down that uh 438 00:15:54,790 --> 00:15:52,959 that was just an unbelievable feeling to 439 00:15:55,189 --> 00:15:54,800 think wow that's that's where that's at 440 00:15:57,749 --> 00:15:55,199 now 441 00:16:00,150 --> 00:15:57,759 that it was sad to see yeah and then 442 00:16:03,430 --> 00:16:00,160 iran of course pours in 443 00:16:03,910 --> 00:16:03,440 to the country and um as it stands right 444 00:16:08,470 --> 00:16:03,920 now 445 00:16:11,350 --> 00:16:08,480 um i imagine still in quite a state of 446 00:16:12,790 --> 00:16:11,360 quite a mess still in iraq yeah well 447 00:16:16,470 --> 00:16:12,800 absolutely 448 00:16:20,069 --> 00:16:17,829 with the kind of the makeup of the 449 00:16:22,069 --> 00:16:20,079 country and the way that the 450 00:16:23,509 --> 00:16:22,079 you know cultural groups interact or 451 00:16:26,230 --> 00:16:23,519 don't uh 452 00:16:28,710 --> 00:16:26,240 with the way that the provincial leaders 453 00:16:30,949 --> 00:16:28,720 interact or don't and i think that was 454 00:16:31,829 --> 00:16:30,959 that makes governing the country a 455 00:16:33,509 --> 00:16:31,839 challenge 456 00:16:34,870 --> 00:16:33,519 uh and and that was something i think we 457 00:16:36,470 --> 00:16:34,880 realized when we were looking at 458 00:16:39,990 --> 00:16:36,480 training 459 00:16:42,790 --> 00:16:40,000 some of the iraq iraqi guard to start to 460 00:16:45,269 --> 00:16:42,800 take over posts or take over checkpoints 461 00:16:46,629 --> 00:16:45,279 and that was you can gather up people 462 00:16:47,749 --> 00:16:46,639 from different tribes in different 463 00:16:49,189 --> 00:16:47,759 provinces 464 00:16:50,790 --> 00:16:49,199 put them together in one place for a 465 00:16:51,670 --> 00:16:50,800 single training and then put them back 466 00:16:53,350 --> 00:16:51,680 out into 467 00:16:55,030 --> 00:16:53,360 areas that they weren't used to living 468 00:16:55,749 --> 00:16:55,040 in because they don't function that way 469 00:16:59,110 --> 00:16:55,759 and so 470 00:17:01,030 --> 00:16:59,120 there were a lot of errors there 471 00:17:02,150 --> 00:17:01,040 in us believing that doing it that way 472 00:17:03,590 --> 00:17:02,160 was actually going to control the 473 00:17:05,029 --> 00:17:03,600 country in a way that 474 00:17:08,230 --> 00:17:05,039 you know maybe would work in a lot of 475 00:17:10,230 --> 00:17:08,240 other places they didn't work there 476 00:17:12,710 --> 00:17:10,240 so i can't imagine there's a lot of 477 00:17:15,189 --> 00:17:12,720 women in the iraqi army 478 00:17:16,789 --> 00:17:15,199 i'm going to guess zero i wouldn't think 479 00:17:18,710 --> 00:17:16,799 so yeah 480 00:17:19,990 --> 00:17:18,720 did you have any interesting 481 00:17:21,669 --> 00:17:20,000 interactions with 482 00:17:24,309 --> 00:17:21,679 your iraqi counterparts considering that 483 00:17:28,069 --> 00:17:26,710 really just some of the school teachers 484 00:17:31,750 --> 00:17:28,079 uh 485 00:17:32,870 --> 00:17:31,760 one of the jobs we had kind of on a 486 00:17:35,190 --> 00:17:32,880 civil operation 487 00:17:37,350 --> 00:17:35,200 was to you know spend some time in the 488 00:17:40,630 --> 00:17:37,360 community 489 00:17:43,669 --> 00:17:40,640 and give people some assurance that 490 00:17:45,990 --> 00:17:43,679 there would be some business as usual 491 00:17:47,909 --> 00:17:46,000 whatever that was and and where i was 492 00:17:49,590 --> 00:17:47,919 that was opening a school back up 493 00:17:50,950 --> 00:17:49,600 that had been closed while saddam 494 00:17:53,110 --> 00:17:50,960 hussein was in power 495 00:17:54,789 --> 00:17:53,120 that had previously been a girls school 496 00:17:56,549 --> 00:17:54,799 and so the school was opened back up 497 00:17:57,830 --> 00:17:56,559 and we were there to kind of guard it 498 00:18:01,350 --> 00:17:57,840 and check in 499 00:18:04,470 --> 00:18:01,360 and have afternoon tea and 500 00:18:06,230 --> 00:18:04,480 just to watch the women do you know what 501 00:18:09,190 --> 00:18:06,240 they do to teach there i know we talk a 502 00:18:12,830 --> 00:18:09,200 lot about teachers here teaching there 503 00:18:14,310 --> 00:18:12,840 i gotta hand it to them it's very 504 00:18:17,430 --> 00:18:14,320 dangerous 505 00:18:19,190 --> 00:18:17,440 and they have very little resources 506 00:18:20,630 --> 00:18:19,200 you know there's no electricity in these 507 00:18:23,830 --> 00:18:20,640 buildings there's no school lunch 508 00:18:25,590 --> 00:18:23,840 there's no materials 509 00:18:27,510 --> 00:18:25,600 and they just kind of lecture and talk 510 00:18:30,789 --> 00:18:27,520 about what they do 511 00:18:33,190 --> 00:18:30,799 but they they were very very hesitant 512 00:18:33,830 --> 00:18:33,200 to interact with us it was it was very 513 00:18:37,669 --> 00:18:33,840 much 514 00:18:39,510 --> 00:18:37,679 head down eyes down uh because the fear 515 00:18:41,669 --> 00:18:39,520 you know especially after desert storm a 516 00:18:44,150 --> 00:18:41,679 lot of the women old enough to remember 517 00:18:46,230 --> 00:18:44,160 as adults would know that you know 518 00:18:48,150 --> 00:18:46,240 getting on the side of america today 519 00:18:50,230 --> 00:18:48,160 may not help you tomorrow it depends on 520 00:18:52,310 --> 00:18:50,240 what we do and if we leave 521 00:18:54,390 --> 00:18:52,320 that was a bad move and so they were 522 00:18:55,510 --> 00:18:54,400 very fearful to trust and openly show 523 00:18:58,710 --> 00:18:55,520 trust 524 00:19:00,070 --> 00:18:58,720 uh toward us yeah that's 525 00:19:01,270 --> 00:19:00,080 certainly i'm sure a challenge we have 526 00:19:03,350 --> 00:19:01,280 there and we're dealing with in 527 00:19:06,630 --> 00:19:03,360 afghanistan right now where 528 00:19:09,190 --> 00:19:06,640 we're always saying we're leaving soon 529 00:19:10,710 --> 00:19:09,200 and it's like okay i guess you're saying 530 00:19:11,909 --> 00:19:10,720 that to the american public who's 531 00:19:15,190 --> 00:19:11,919 getting tired of the war 532 00:19:17,350 --> 00:19:15,200 but letting your supporters in that 533 00:19:20,070 --> 00:19:17,360 country know that you're leaving soon 534 00:19:20,870 --> 00:19:20,080 and letting the adversary know that 535 00:19:24,549 --> 00:19:20,880 doesn't seem like 536 00:19:26,950 --> 00:19:24,559 it's very wise yeah it does put them in 537 00:19:30,549 --> 00:19:26,960 a predicament if there's no safeguard 538 00:19:32,390 --> 00:19:30,559 after we're gone for them to either and 539 00:19:32,950 --> 00:19:32,400 no infrastructure for them to continue 540 00:19:34,710 --> 00:19:32,960 on in 541 00:19:36,070 --> 00:19:34,720 in what it was we were trying to do if 542 00:19:37,590 --> 00:19:36,080 there isn't a government 543 00:19:39,270 --> 00:19:37,600 that's going to provide some protection 544 00:19:42,230 --> 00:19:39,280 if there isn't you know 545 00:19:43,909 --> 00:19:42,240 economy and and that's really a lot of 546 00:19:46,710 --> 00:19:43,919 what the fight is going to 547 00:19:47,590 --> 00:19:46,720 be over is resources as long as the 548 00:19:49,590 --> 00:19:47,600 people are poor 549 00:19:51,590 --> 00:19:49,600 and starving they can be very easy to 550 00:19:54,789 --> 00:19:51,600 control 551 00:19:56,230 --> 00:19:54,799 so uh well before we get to the more the 552 00:19:59,270 --> 00:19:56,240 women's issues 553 00:20:02,390 --> 00:19:59,280 tell us about your experience with ptsd 554 00:20:05,510 --> 00:20:02,400 do you feel you suffered from it and 555 00:20:07,909 --> 00:20:05,520 perhaps some of your fellow service 556 00:20:14,870 --> 00:20:12,390 no absolutely uh and i think initially 557 00:20:15,510 --> 00:20:14,880 uh since we were in one of the earlier 558 00:20:19,029 --> 00:20:15,520 waves 559 00:20:21,430 --> 00:20:19,039 of uh being in the middle east 560 00:20:23,350 --> 00:20:21,440 as as much as we hear about it now and 561 00:20:24,870 --> 00:20:23,360 as much as we look back and think about 562 00:20:26,310 --> 00:20:24,880 previous conflicts and i've always been 563 00:20:28,870 --> 00:20:26,320 able to identify 564 00:20:29,909 --> 00:20:28,880 what ptsd is no matter what you call it 565 00:20:31,750 --> 00:20:29,919 uh there's still 566 00:20:34,149 --> 00:20:31,760 there's enough there wasn't very good 567 00:20:36,070 --> 00:20:34,159 recognition of it then at the time and i 568 00:20:38,950 --> 00:20:36,080 don't think there was for a lot of us 569 00:20:39,909 --> 00:20:38,960 in ourselves because it's something that 570 00:20:42,950 --> 00:20:39,919 happened 571 00:20:44,710 --> 00:20:42,960 over a period of time 572 00:20:46,390 --> 00:20:44,720 that we learned to deal and cope with in 573 00:20:48,470 --> 00:20:46,400 a particular environment and then we 574 00:20:51,430 --> 00:20:48,480 just changed environments and i think 575 00:20:52,549 --> 00:20:51,440 initially we thought everything that we 576 00:20:55,669 --> 00:20:52,559 were doing at the time was 577 00:20:57,270 --> 00:20:55,679 normal quote unquote normal and 578 00:20:58,950 --> 00:20:57,280 whatever wasn't was going to change when 579 00:21:00,710 --> 00:20:58,960 the environment changed you come home 580 00:21:02,549 --> 00:21:00,720 there's no threats 581 00:21:04,310 --> 00:21:02,559 everything's going to be fine it doesn't 582 00:21:06,710 --> 00:21:04,320 just doesn't work that way 583 00:21:09,270 --> 00:21:06,720 all that experience and all that time 584 00:21:10,950 --> 00:21:09,280 does do some hard wiring of the brain 585 00:21:12,549 --> 00:21:10,960 and coming home and changing that 586 00:21:14,549 --> 00:21:12,559 environment all that programming is 587 00:21:17,590 --> 00:21:14,559 still there so there's some 588 00:21:19,590 --> 00:21:17,600 some work that has to be done uh for me 589 00:21:21,510 --> 00:21:19,600 a lot of work that had to be done to 590 00:21:23,190 --> 00:21:21,520 reprogram that to believe that 591 00:21:25,669 --> 00:21:23,200 seriously no one was going to be around 592 00:21:29,029 --> 00:21:25,679 the next corner looking to kill me 593 00:21:30,950 --> 00:21:29,039 that i didn't have to check a roof or 594 00:21:32,310 --> 00:21:30,960 any of those things that just became a 595 00:21:33,669 --> 00:21:32,320 part of my day-to-day because if i 596 00:21:34,549 --> 00:21:33,679 didn't do it something terrible could 597 00:21:37,430 --> 00:21:34,559 happen 598 00:21:39,350 --> 00:21:37,440 so i really had to rethink uh and go 599 00:21:39,750 --> 00:21:39,360 through that story and spend some time 600 00:21:42,950 --> 00:21:39,760 just 601 00:21:44,950 --> 00:21:42,960 getting back to a thought process that 602 00:21:46,789 --> 00:21:44,960 was going to work when i was back home 603 00:21:48,070 --> 00:21:46,799 which isn't something you normally have 604 00:21:49,830 --> 00:21:48,080 to think about unless you have that 605 00:21:53,110 --> 00:21:49,840 experience 606 00:21:54,710 --> 00:21:53,120 so other than constantly being on edge 607 00:21:56,549 --> 00:21:54,720 and as you said kind of have to be 608 00:21:58,549 --> 00:21:56,559 deprogrammed but were there 609 00:21:59,830 --> 00:21:58,559 more severe symptoms that you had also 610 00:22:01,590 --> 00:21:59,840 like did it bring on things like 611 00:22:05,029 --> 00:22:01,600 depression or 612 00:22:08,230 --> 00:22:05,039 absolutely absolutely uh 613 00:22:08,710 --> 00:22:08,240 just because i think a lot of people and 614 00:22:11,110 --> 00:22:08,720 i did 615 00:22:12,070 --> 00:22:11,120 just experience a lot of survival 616 00:22:15,669 --> 00:22:12,080 survivor 617 00:22:16,230 --> 00:22:15,679 guilt uh there there were people in my 618 00:22:18,710 --> 00:22:16,240 unit 619 00:22:19,350 --> 00:22:18,720 david kirkhoff and aaron sissel who died 620 00:22:29,830 --> 00:22:19,360 there 621 00:22:30,230 --> 00:22:29,840 uh it puts a lot of pressure first of 622 00:22:33,029 --> 00:22:30,240 all 623 00:22:34,230 --> 00:22:33,039 it's just a terrible sadness because you 624 00:22:37,590 --> 00:22:34,240 don't go to a funeral 625 00:22:40,149 --> 00:22:37,600 and you don't uh meet the family and if 626 00:22:41,990 --> 00:22:40,159 someone just sort of disappears and i 627 00:22:43,990 --> 00:22:42,000 think that was that's a hard way to lose 628 00:22:45,909 --> 00:22:44,000 somebody and especially for us 629 00:22:47,909 --> 00:22:45,919 at night uh when we're getting ready for 630 00:22:49,830 --> 00:22:47,919 a mission the next day 631 00:22:51,830 --> 00:22:49,840 and you hear all the intel to get ready 632 00:22:53,270 --> 00:22:51,840 for that those casualties 633 00:22:55,190 --> 00:22:53,280 and debts are just a part of the 634 00:22:55,990 --> 00:22:55,200 intelligence that you use to prepare for 635 00:22:58,870 --> 00:22:56,000 the next day 636 00:23:00,870 --> 00:22:58,880 and it just becomes a thing and i think 637 00:23:02,870 --> 00:23:00,880 when i came home 638 00:23:04,789 --> 00:23:02,880 i wanted to make sure that i finally 639 00:23:06,390 --> 00:23:04,799 gave all those moments the recognition 640 00:23:07,270 --> 00:23:06,400 that they needed they were incredibly 641 00:23:10,310 --> 00:23:07,280 sad 642 00:23:12,950 --> 00:23:10,320 they were incredibly tragic and 643 00:23:14,470 --> 00:23:12,960 i needed to finally experience that 644 00:23:16,310 --> 00:23:14,480 grief 645 00:23:18,710 --> 00:23:16,320 and then there was this pressure that 646 00:23:20,470 --> 00:23:18,720 and for them in their honor 647 00:23:23,190 --> 00:23:20,480 i need to make my life something 648 00:23:25,590 --> 00:23:23,200 important because they don't get that 649 00:23:27,029 --> 00:23:25,600 and so that that creates its own kind of 650 00:23:31,190 --> 00:23:27,039 unique pressure i think 651 00:23:37,669 --> 00:23:34,230 so um was there a treatment that you 652 00:23:41,190 --> 00:23:37,679 went through with for that i did i 653 00:23:42,630 --> 00:23:41,200 used my va did cognitive behavioral 654 00:23:46,630 --> 00:23:42,640 therapy 655 00:23:47,750 --> 00:23:46,640 uh went to a lot of veterans events 656 00:23:49,750 --> 00:23:47,760 retreats 657 00:23:51,430 --> 00:23:49,760 you know weekend events to spend some 658 00:23:54,710 --> 00:23:51,440 time uh 659 00:23:57,029 --> 00:23:54,720 openly sharing stories uh 660 00:23:57,830 --> 00:23:57,039 talking about all that there's probably 661 00:24:00,950 --> 00:23:57,840 a very 662 00:24:02,549 --> 00:24:00,960 large percentage of soldiers who don't 663 00:24:04,789 --> 00:24:02,559 seek that treatment though that 664 00:24:05,830 --> 00:24:04,799 they they don't think they need it or 665 00:24:09,510 --> 00:24:05,840 they're 666 00:24:11,909 --> 00:24:09,520 what have you 667 00:24:13,510 --> 00:24:11,919 absolutely no absolutely there are there 668 00:24:14,870 --> 00:24:13,520 are a lot of people who don't recognize 669 00:24:18,149 --> 00:24:14,880 it in themselves 670 00:24:20,070 --> 00:24:18,159 who have a hard time believing that if i 671 00:24:21,510 --> 00:24:20,080 talk about this or tell this story or do 672 00:24:22,710 --> 00:24:21,520 this thing now how's that going to 673 00:24:25,269 --> 00:24:22,720 change what happened 674 00:24:26,310 --> 00:24:25,279 well it doesn't uh it doesn't change 675 00:24:30,310 --> 00:24:26,320 what happened 676 00:24:32,950 --> 00:24:30,320 but it does uh 677 00:24:34,230 --> 00:24:32,960 it does help this it does help the story 678 00:24:36,630 --> 00:24:34,240 have some meaning 679 00:24:38,390 --> 00:24:36,640 and that meaning i think in people a lot 680 00:24:40,070 --> 00:24:38,400 of times they find their purpose 681 00:24:42,149 --> 00:24:40,080 and then it just stops being a dead end 682 00:24:42,870 --> 00:24:42,159 road i think the normal progression of 683 00:24:44,390 --> 00:24:42,880 thoughts 684 00:24:46,470 --> 00:24:44,400 when i was very depressed about it was 685 00:24:48,070 --> 00:24:46,480 just it was absolutely terrible and 686 00:24:51,110 --> 00:24:48,080 nothing's ever going to change it 687 00:24:53,190 --> 00:24:51,120 that's true so i do think you have to 688 00:24:54,630 --> 00:24:53,200 find a way to turn that around and i 689 00:24:58,149 --> 00:24:54,640 think that 690 00:25:00,070 --> 00:24:58,159 that kind of talk therapy and 691 00:25:02,710 --> 00:25:00,080 storytelling and spending time with 692 00:25:04,950 --> 00:25:02,720 veterans and 693 00:25:07,269 --> 00:25:04,960 kind of relieving that burden or sharing 694 00:25:09,190 --> 00:25:07,279 it i think it helps 695 00:25:11,430 --> 00:25:09,200 and i tell people all the time who say 696 00:25:14,149 --> 00:25:11,440 but i tried it it didn't work 697 00:25:15,909 --> 00:25:14,159 try something else you just have to keep 698 00:25:17,269 --> 00:25:15,919 trying because at the point where you 699 00:25:19,110 --> 00:25:17,279 stop trying 700 00:25:21,590 --> 00:25:19,120 that's where i think the hopelessness 701 00:25:23,909 --> 00:25:21,600 sets in that's where 702 00:25:25,269 --> 00:25:23,919 the downward spiral starts and then 703 00:25:25,990 --> 00:25:25,279 that's where you really get into the 704 00:25:29,510 --> 00:25:26,000 places where 705 00:25:32,870 --> 00:25:29,520 you know suicide becomes a real concern 706 00:25:35,909 --> 00:25:32,880 and it has been for veterans uh 707 00:25:39,590 --> 00:25:35,919 yeah joblessness homelessness and 708 00:25:40,950 --> 00:25:39,600 suicides yeah absolutely and 709 00:25:43,110 --> 00:25:40,960 you know part of it again is captured in 710 00:25:46,230 --> 00:25:43,120 the film where 711 00:25:47,750 --> 00:25:46,240 you you come back and there's 712 00:25:49,669 --> 00:25:47,760 first of all you don't have the adrenal 713 00:25:53,110 --> 00:25:49,679 adrenaline rush that you've got 714 00:25:55,990 --> 00:25:53,120 in the combat zone um you also have 715 00:25:57,590 --> 00:25:56,000 nothing is life or death when you're 716 00:25:59,750 --> 00:25:57,600 back home 717 00:26:01,110 --> 00:25:59,760 and you've got friends that you've lost 718 00:26:04,630 --> 00:26:01,120 there you've got friends that are still 719 00:26:06,549 --> 00:26:04,640 serving there and it's very hard 720 00:26:08,230 --> 00:26:06,559 to adjust mentally to the idea that i'm 721 00:26:10,950 --> 00:26:08,240 gonna stay here in 722 00:26:12,549 --> 00:26:10,960 this simple life while their lives are 723 00:26:15,590 --> 00:26:12,559 still on the line 724 00:26:17,110 --> 00:26:15,600 i absolutely had feelings that i wanted 725 00:26:19,029 --> 00:26:17,120 to go back right away 726 00:26:21,029 --> 00:26:19,039 wanted to go back want to go back in 727 00:26:24,070 --> 00:26:21,039 wanted to go back to iraq 728 00:26:26,870 --> 00:26:24,080 still do some days which is 729 00:26:27,269 --> 00:26:26,880 just interesting to me because it there 730 00:26:29,669 --> 00:26:27,279 just 731 00:26:30,710 --> 00:26:29,679 seems to be a part of my life that's 732 00:26:31,830 --> 00:26:30,720 still there 733 00:26:34,070 --> 00:26:31,840 and there's a part of wanting to 734 00:26:34,789 --> 00:26:34,080 recapture it or relive it or understand 735 00:26:38,149 --> 00:26:34,799 it better 736 00:26:39,830 --> 00:26:38,159 there's definitely that draw that's kind 737 00:26:41,269 --> 00:26:39,840 of hard to explain 738 00:26:46,630 --> 00:26:41,279 yeah how would you try to explain that 739 00:26:50,390 --> 00:26:49,669 i don't know you know being in being in 740 00:26:52,149 --> 00:26:50,400 iraq is 741 00:26:54,710 --> 00:26:52,159 not like being in another country it's 742 00:26:56,310 --> 00:26:54,720 like being in another universe 743 00:26:58,310 --> 00:26:56,320 thing ever all the rules are different 744 00:27:01,990 --> 00:26:58,320 everything operates differently 745 00:27:03,750 --> 00:27:02,000 and i think when i first came back 746 00:27:05,990 --> 00:27:03,760 i almost just didn't understand how it 747 00:27:08,710 --> 00:27:06,000 worked to be in iowa 748 00:27:09,269 --> 00:27:08,720 i i just like for whatever reason i just 749 00:27:14,549 --> 00:27:09,279 didn't 750 00:27:16,549 --> 00:27:14,559 really angry all the time that 751 00:27:19,029 --> 00:27:16,559 somebody could have a good day that 752 00:27:21,510 --> 00:27:19,039 somebody could 753 00:27:23,110 --> 00:27:21,520 you know watch a comedy and and laugh 754 00:27:24,549 --> 00:27:23,120 when all that was going on over there 755 00:27:26,630 --> 00:27:24,559 don't you care 756 00:27:27,750 --> 00:27:26,640 because it was still very much a part of 757 00:27:31,830 --> 00:27:27,760 my 758 00:27:35,990 --> 00:27:31,840 mind uh i don't i don't know 759 00:27:40,230 --> 00:27:38,870 it is it's just a whole other experience 760 00:27:42,549 --> 00:27:40,240 i would imagine some of it 761 00:27:44,389 --> 00:27:42,559 was probably the camaraderie because 762 00:27:46,070 --> 00:27:44,399 when you are in a unit 763 00:27:47,590 --> 00:27:46,080 like that where everything is life or 764 00:27:50,070 --> 00:27:47,600 death 765 00:27:51,269 --> 00:27:50,080 right the bonding i mean i was in a 766 00:27:54,149 --> 00:27:51,279 college fraternity 767 00:27:55,510 --> 00:27:54,159 okay so i'll use that as my silly 768 00:27:57,750 --> 00:27:55,520 comparison but 769 00:27:59,269 --> 00:27:57,760 we did share a pretty significant bond 770 00:28:00,549 --> 00:27:59,279 because of the crap they make you go 771 00:28:02,549 --> 00:28:00,559 through and so on but 772 00:28:04,630 --> 00:28:02,559 so here you've got this fraternity 773 00:28:07,350 --> 00:28:04,640 that's in the real world 774 00:28:07,990 --> 00:28:07,360 with real lives on the line fighting a 775 00:28:11,029 --> 00:28:08,000 real 776 00:28:14,710 --> 00:28:11,039 important mission um and that's 777 00:28:16,310 --> 00:28:14,720 you can't replicate that anywhere 778 00:28:18,070 --> 00:28:16,320 no and i think there's a special 779 00:28:18,710 --> 00:28:18,080 challenge for people who are deployed 780 00:28:21,510 --> 00:28:18,720 out of 781 00:28:21,909 --> 00:28:21,520 the garden of reserves for that reason 782 00:28:24,470 --> 00:28:21,919 because 783 00:28:25,990 --> 00:28:24,480 active duty units come home to their 784 00:28:29,269 --> 00:28:26,000 active duty post 785 00:28:32,870 --> 00:28:29,279 and they spend time together regrouping 786 00:28:34,630 --> 00:28:32,880 retraining and and doing that as a group 787 00:28:36,789 --> 00:28:34,640 so that structure still exists when 788 00:28:37,990 --> 00:28:36,799 people come back from a deployment and 789 00:28:39,029 --> 00:28:38,000 they were in the national guard of the 790 00:28:40,389 --> 00:28:39,039 reserves 791 00:28:42,549 --> 00:28:40,399 they all dispersed back to their 792 00:28:44,470 --> 00:28:42,559 hometowns to be farmers and firefighters 793 00:28:47,669 --> 00:28:44,480 and teachers and everything else and 794 00:28:48,710 --> 00:28:47,679 they might drill on a weekend two months 795 00:28:51,350 --> 00:28:48,720 later 796 00:28:53,190 --> 00:28:51,360 and so kind of splintering apart that 797 00:28:54,870 --> 00:28:53,200 support network 798 00:28:56,389 --> 00:28:54,880 that you had in that environment i think 799 00:28:58,630 --> 00:28:56,399 that's a special challenge for guard 800 00:29:00,310 --> 00:28:58,640 people too 801 00:29:01,830 --> 00:29:00,320 it almost seems as if counseling ought 802 00:29:04,950 --> 00:29:01,840 to be mandatory 803 00:29:07,909 --> 00:29:04,960 um for people coming back i mean 804 00:29:10,830 --> 00:29:07,919 it almost seems impossible not to have 805 00:29:13,029 --> 00:29:10,840 ptsd coming back from that 806 00:29:15,110 --> 00:29:13,039 situation 807 00:29:16,630 --> 00:29:15,120 yeah no i agree with that i was in uh 808 00:29:19,110 --> 00:29:16,640 fort mccoy wisconsin 809 00:29:20,470 --> 00:29:19,120 for i think three days before i ended up 810 00:29:23,590 --> 00:29:20,480 back home 811 00:29:28,070 --> 00:29:23,600 so about a 24 hour flight 812 00:29:33,510 --> 00:29:30,710 baghdad germany maine in wisconsin and 813 00:29:35,430 --> 00:29:33,520 then three days later in my living room 814 00:29:37,110 --> 00:29:35,440 that's not the best way to do it i don't 815 00:29:38,710 --> 00:29:37,120 think i don't even know that it would be 816 00:29:39,990 --> 00:29:38,720 called counseling but there is there 817 00:29:41,590 --> 00:29:40,000 should be some 818 00:29:43,430 --> 00:29:41,600 transition time and i do think they're 819 00:29:44,789 --> 00:29:43,440 getting better at that they do recognize 820 00:29:47,830 --> 00:29:44,799 that now 821 00:29:50,149 --> 00:29:47,840 at the time when i was there honestly 822 00:29:51,669 --> 00:29:50,159 when they do do a like a fitness or an 823 00:29:55,510 --> 00:29:51,679 emotional fitness screening 824 00:29:58,470 --> 00:29:55,520 on your way out of the country and 825 00:29:58,950 --> 00:29:58,480 they just gave us the answers like don't 826 00:30:01,510 --> 00:29:58,960 answer 827 00:30:03,669 --> 00:30:01,520 number one with a or you'll end up here 828 00:30:05,350 --> 00:30:03,679 for a week talking to a shrink 829 00:30:07,430 --> 00:30:05,360 everybody wanted to go home so it's like 830 00:30:09,269 --> 00:30:07,440 one is c two is b 831 00:30:10,470 --> 00:30:09,279 you just filled it out have you ever 832 00:30:13,590 --> 00:30:10,480 wanted to kill somebody 833 00:30:15,590 --> 00:30:13,600 i don't know like when it wasn't the 834 00:30:18,950 --> 00:30:15,600 right time it wasn't the right place 835 00:30:20,070 --> 00:30:18,960 to get a get it some sort of a real 836 00:30:23,269 --> 00:30:20,080 screening 837 00:30:24,549 --> 00:30:23,279 uh so just some sort of a decompression 838 00:30:27,350 --> 00:30:24,559 time 839 00:30:29,029 --> 00:30:27,360 to normalize that as the normal 840 00:30:31,510 --> 00:30:29,039 experience of coming home from war 841 00:30:33,269 --> 00:30:31,520 in the same way that there's a ramp up 842 00:30:35,110 --> 00:30:33,279 you go somewhere else 843 00:30:37,190 --> 00:30:35,120 you do there's a battle checklist for 844 00:30:37,510 --> 00:30:37,200 your unit to be screened to be ready to 845 00:30:38,950 --> 00:30:37,520 go 846 00:30:41,909 --> 00:30:38,960 you know we spent three months at fort 847 00:30:43,750 --> 00:30:41,919 mccoy checking all those boxes 848 00:30:45,590 --> 00:30:43,760 yes everybody wants to see their family 849 00:30:46,310 --> 00:30:45,600 but get give yourself some decompression 850 00:30:49,110 --> 00:30:46,320 time 851 00:30:51,510 --> 00:30:49,120 that's at least half that long to at 852 00:30:52,950 --> 00:30:51,520 least give credit to the fact that 853 00:30:54,549 --> 00:30:52,960 when we send you home we want you to be 854 00:30:56,389 --> 00:30:54,559 successful with your family 855 00:30:57,990 --> 00:30:56,399 successful in life and we want you to 856 00:30:59,029 --> 00:30:58,000 stay in the military because this was a 857 00:31:00,710 --> 00:30:59,039 valuable experience 858 00:31:02,630 --> 00:31:00,720 these are the experiences we actually 859 00:31:04,310 --> 00:31:02,640 want military people to bring 860 00:31:06,149 --> 00:31:04,320 if we ever have to get called to do 861 00:31:07,590 --> 00:31:06,159 something like this again 862 00:31:09,509 --> 00:31:07,600 something we've covered on the show a 863 00:31:10,710 --> 00:31:09,519 few times before is a therapy called 864 00:31:13,830 --> 00:31:10,720 emdr 865 00:31:15,190 --> 00:31:13,840 you ever heard of the eu have you ever 866 00:31:17,350 --> 00:31:15,200 actually had it 867 00:31:18,230 --> 00:31:17,360 i have not had it but i know some people 868 00:31:20,950 --> 00:31:18,240 who have 869 00:31:22,549 --> 00:31:20,960 and have it has been successful for them 870 00:31:24,870 --> 00:31:22,559 so 871 00:31:25,830 --> 00:31:24,880 that's why i i tell anybody who talks to 872 00:31:27,430 --> 00:31:25,840 me about it 873 00:31:29,750 --> 00:31:27,440 you know people don't know what's going 874 00:31:30,230 --> 00:31:29,760 to work specifically for them speak to 875 00:31:34,549 --> 00:31:30,240 them 876 00:31:36,070 --> 00:31:34,559 one of the things i'd absolutely 877 00:31:37,750 --> 00:31:36,080 recommend him 878 00:31:39,669 --> 00:31:37,760 yeah we've covered it both as far as 879 00:31:41,029 --> 00:31:39,679 soldiers coming back and 880 00:31:42,870 --> 00:31:41,039 for treatments for various things and 881 00:31:46,310 --> 00:31:42,880 even for children i mean anything 882 00:31:47,430 --> 00:31:46,320 that trauma has permanent effects on the 883 00:31:49,509 --> 00:31:47,440 brain 884 00:31:50,789 --> 00:31:49,519 and i think for children it probably has 885 00:31:51,830 --> 00:31:50,799 even more permanent effects you have a 886 00:31:53,750 --> 00:31:51,840 developing brain 887 00:31:55,350 --> 00:31:53,760 so childhood trauma is something where 888 00:31:58,149 --> 00:31:55,360 it needs to be 889 00:31:59,110 --> 00:31:58,159 used for um you know one thing that just 890 00:32:02,470 --> 00:31:59,120 occurs me is when you 891 00:32:02,870 --> 00:32:02,480 think about how many men served in world 892 00:32:07,269 --> 00:32:02,880 war 893 00:32:07,990 --> 00:32:07,279 ii that came back and ptsd wasn't even a 894 00:32:11,750 --> 00:32:08,000 thing 895 00:32:12,710 --> 00:32:11,760 then yet all of them probably came back 896 00:32:15,430 --> 00:32:12,720 with some 897 00:32:17,110 --> 00:32:15,440 form of that and most of them probably 898 00:32:21,029 --> 00:32:17,120 kept it to themselves 899 00:32:23,750 --> 00:32:21,039 because it wasn't spoken of at the time 900 00:32:25,350 --> 00:32:23,760 and not being spoken about probably 901 00:32:26,389 --> 00:32:25,360 didn't improve the quality of their life 902 00:32:30,549 --> 00:32:26,399 which 903 00:32:33,110 --> 00:32:30,559 you know for a country for an america 904 00:32:33,909 --> 00:32:33,120 to truly honor people who are willing to 905 00:32:37,110 --> 00:32:33,919 be 906 00:32:37,669 --> 00:32:37,120 that of course world war ii is a little 907 00:32:39,909 --> 00:32:37,679 different 908 00:32:41,830 --> 00:32:39,919 but who were were able to pick up a 909 00:32:43,830 --> 00:32:41,840 rifle and follow 910 00:32:45,110 --> 00:32:43,840 you know i just think we owe that group 911 00:32:47,350 --> 00:32:45,120 of people more 912 00:32:48,149 --> 00:32:47,360 and part of that would be offering them 913 00:32:52,870 --> 00:32:48,159 some 914 00:32:54,830 --> 00:32:52,880 and that's treating them right when they 915 00:32:55,990 --> 00:32:54,840 get back being able to have the 916 00:33:00,070 --> 00:32:56,000 conversation 917 00:33:03,430 --> 00:33:00,080 not having that being stigmatized uh 918 00:33:04,149 --> 00:33:03,440 yeah just so so tell us a story or two 919 00:33:06,950 --> 00:33:04,159 that are kind of 920 00:33:08,230 --> 00:33:06,960 your favorites from the book uh you know 921 00:33:11,669 --> 00:33:08,240 in particular about 922 00:33:14,070 --> 00:33:11,679 the uniqueness of being a woman in 923 00:33:17,430 --> 00:33:14,080 what was primarily a male-dominated 924 00:33:21,590 --> 00:33:19,669 unique stories are good stories from 925 00:33:24,310 --> 00:33:21,600 that time 926 00:33:28,149 --> 00:33:24,320 well i i have to at least give credit to 927 00:33:31,269 --> 00:33:28,159 the other women who were there with me 928 00:33:32,789 --> 00:33:31,279 because we very much looked out for each 929 00:33:35,909 --> 00:33:32,799 other 930 00:33:37,509 --> 00:33:35,919 when they say that uh 931 00:33:39,590 --> 00:33:37,519 it is more likely that a woman's going 932 00:33:42,950 --> 00:33:39,600 to be assaulted in the military by 933 00:33:45,909 --> 00:33:42,960 by someone in a unit than 934 00:33:46,389 --> 00:33:45,919 you know being attacked by al qaeda or 935 00:33:52,149 --> 00:33:46,399 or 936 00:33:54,789 --> 00:33:52,159 uh so there were a lot of women who 937 00:33:56,310 --> 00:33:54,799 were there with me who were always 938 00:33:57,990 --> 00:33:56,320 watching out on both sides 939 00:33:59,669 --> 00:33:58,000 and i think that's probably the hardest 940 00:34:01,350 --> 00:33:59,679 thing about being a woman in the 941 00:34:03,590 --> 00:34:01,360 military it was then 942 00:34:04,789 --> 00:34:03,600 i think that still exists now i think 943 00:34:07,990 --> 00:34:04,799 it's getting better 944 00:34:09,270 --> 00:34:08,000 i think we have a long way to go so they 945 00:34:13,829 --> 00:34:09,280 really would 946 00:34:15,109 --> 00:34:13,839 uh you know look out for me i know one 947 00:34:17,510 --> 00:34:15,119 time when i was 948 00:34:19,750 --> 00:34:17,520 going over to the syrian border to work 949 00:34:21,750 --> 00:34:19,760 at a checkpoint 950 00:34:22,790 --> 00:34:21,760 and there were no other women there and 951 00:34:24,550 --> 00:34:22,800 it was just going to be me and my 952 00:34:25,349 --> 00:34:24,560 co-driver and that would have been fine 953 00:34:27,430 --> 00:34:25,359 because 954 00:34:29,430 --> 00:34:27,440 you know he was a good guy and he would 955 00:34:29,829 --> 00:34:29,440 have looked out for me but just the idea 956 00:34:33,109 --> 00:34:29,839 of it 957 00:34:33,510 --> 00:34:33,119 probably not be in the best way one of 958 00:34:36,710 --> 00:34:33,520 the 959 00:34:39,510 --> 00:34:36,720 women who was a prison guard in her 960 00:34:42,710 --> 00:34:39,520 civilian job here at home 961 00:34:44,629 --> 00:34:42,720 uh i think they they had a nickname for 962 00:34:47,270 --> 00:34:44,639 her that was something like that too 963 00:34:49,270 --> 00:34:47,280 uh but she she said you know what i'm 964 00:34:50,790 --> 00:34:49,280 gonna go with you 965 00:34:52,470 --> 00:34:50,800 and they were like you're not on the 966 00:34:54,069 --> 00:34:52,480 roster this isn't your mission you're 967 00:34:55,430 --> 00:34:54,079 not the driver and she's like no no you 968 00:34:58,470 --> 00:34:55,440 don't understand 969 00:35:02,310 --> 00:34:58,480 i'm gonna go with her and i was like 970 00:35:04,150 --> 00:35:02,320 oh [\h__\h] uh and she did and we kind of 971 00:35:05,670 --> 00:35:04,160 slept back to back in that room uh 972 00:35:07,510 --> 00:35:05,680 well we were up with the at that 973 00:35:09,510 --> 00:35:07,520 checkpoint just 974 00:35:10,550 --> 00:35:09,520 not even knowing you know and and that's 975 00:35:13,030 --> 00:35:10,560 that's the sad 976 00:35:15,430 --> 00:35:13,040 part is you know most of the guys that 977 00:35:17,109 --> 00:35:15,440 we worked and trained with they were 978 00:35:18,550 --> 00:35:17,119 they were the best of the best they were 979 00:35:20,790 --> 00:35:18,560 they were great people 980 00:35:22,150 --> 00:35:20,800 uh but you just don't know where the 981 00:35:23,430 --> 00:35:22,160 other people are you don't know where 982 00:35:25,349 --> 00:35:23,440 the bad apples are 983 00:35:27,990 --> 00:35:25,359 and we certainly didn't know working 984 00:35:29,510 --> 00:35:28,000 with another unit who everybody was so 985 00:35:30,950 --> 00:35:29,520 she was always looking out for me like 986 00:35:31,430 --> 00:35:30,960 that i don't think we slept the whole 987 00:35:34,790 --> 00:35:31,440 time we're 988 00:35:37,829 --> 00:35:34,800 there so um and 989 00:35:39,030 --> 00:35:37,839 were there actual incidents of uh 990 00:35:41,990 --> 00:35:39,040 assaults 991 00:35:44,790 --> 00:35:42,000 within the ranks on females while you 992 00:35:46,390 --> 00:35:44,800 were there 993 00:35:47,829 --> 00:35:46,400 nothing that i can tell you that i 994 00:35:50,310 --> 00:35:47,839 witnessed 995 00:35:51,750 --> 00:35:50,320 but do i believe those things happened 996 00:36:00,150 --> 00:35:51,760 absolutely 997 00:36:00,710 --> 00:36:00,160 yeah i guess the question is you know is 998 00:36:06,710 --> 00:36:00,720 it 999 00:36:09,829 --> 00:36:06,720 or kind of the same concern we have 1000 00:36:14,069 --> 00:36:09,839 generally i tend to think of it 1001 00:36:17,030 --> 00:36:14,079 as this generally the same issue 1002 00:36:18,630 --> 00:36:17,040 uh i think for a long time that was a 1003 00:36:19,910 --> 00:36:18,640 part of the argument that said you know 1004 00:36:20,870 --> 00:36:19,920 i don't know if women should be in these 1005 00:36:24,150 --> 00:36:20,880 spaces 1006 00:36:25,990 --> 00:36:24,160 uh it's too intense or when guys are all 1007 00:36:27,990 --> 00:36:26,000 amped up this is what happens i 1008 00:36:29,190 --> 00:36:28,000 i don't actually that was a very poor 1009 00:36:31,109 --> 00:36:29,200 argument 1010 00:36:32,790 --> 00:36:31,119 for women getting the opportunity to 1011 00:36:35,030 --> 00:36:32,800 reach their full potential 1012 00:36:36,950 --> 00:36:35,040 and do really well in some of these jobs 1013 00:36:40,230 --> 00:36:36,960 where they excelled ahead of their 1014 00:36:41,030 --> 00:36:40,240 male peers because it's a crime of 1015 00:36:43,589 --> 00:36:41,040 violence 1016 00:36:45,510 --> 00:36:43,599 it's not a crime of gender uh it's a 1017 00:36:46,950 --> 00:36:45,520 crime of power and control and people 1018 00:36:48,790 --> 00:36:46,960 who do that in the military do in the 1019 00:36:49,829 --> 00:36:48,800 civilian world and i think the profile 1020 00:36:52,470 --> 00:36:49,839 is pretty much the same 1021 00:36:53,670 --> 00:36:52,480 so i think in the military having higher 1022 00:36:56,710 --> 00:36:53,680 values 1023 00:36:58,950 --> 00:36:56,720 for you know what our conduct should be 1024 00:37:01,670 --> 00:36:58,960 ideally i just think we have to do a 1025 00:37:04,069 --> 00:37:01,680 good job about kicking them people out 1026 00:37:05,190 --> 00:37:04,079 this and that would be the best way to 1027 00:37:07,910 --> 00:37:05,200 solve that problem 1028 00:37:08,550 --> 00:37:07,920 and not to limit where women go uh how 1029 00:37:11,030 --> 00:37:08,560 they work 1030 00:37:13,109 --> 00:37:11,040 train and fight but you find the bad 1031 00:37:14,790 --> 00:37:13,119 apples you have a real strong 1032 00:37:16,230 --> 00:37:14,800 line on just getting the hell out of 1033 00:37:18,630 --> 00:37:16,240 there 1034 00:37:19,510 --> 00:37:18,640 so our military went from not allowing 1035 00:37:21,670 --> 00:37:19,520 women at all 1036 00:37:24,310 --> 00:37:21,680 to allowing them in certain roles to now 1037 00:37:27,190 --> 00:37:24,320 essentially permitting them in all roles 1038 00:37:27,750 --> 00:37:27,200 and but of late has even gone taking it 1039 00:37:29,910 --> 00:37:27,760 further 1040 00:37:32,150 --> 00:37:29,920 than that which is actually 1041 00:37:35,349 --> 00:37:32,160 demonstrating affirmative action 1042 00:37:36,630 --> 00:37:35,359 toward women and encouraging women to 1043 00:37:39,829 --> 00:37:36,640 join the military 1044 00:37:42,790 --> 00:37:39,839 more so than men promoting women 1045 00:37:43,030 --> 00:37:42,800 based on their sex uh or giving them a 1046 00:37:44,390 --> 00:37:43,040 an 1047 00:37:45,829 --> 00:37:44,400 edge basically you know affirmative 1048 00:37:47,910 --> 00:37:45,839 action basically i got two equal 1049 00:37:49,589 --> 00:37:47,920 candidates one's male one's female 1050 00:37:51,270 --> 00:37:49,599 and i'm going to give it to the female 1051 00:37:54,069 --> 00:37:51,280 because gee we 1052 00:37:54,550 --> 00:37:54,079 want more women leaders or we want more 1053 00:37:57,430 --> 00:37:54,560 women 1054 00:37:57,910 --> 00:37:57,440 you know in the military and i mean i've 1055 00:37:59,910 --> 00:37:57,920 got 1056 00:38:01,030 --> 00:37:59,920 direct knowledge and talking to various 1057 00:38:03,990 --> 00:38:01,040 members of the military 1058 00:38:05,589 --> 00:38:04,000 about that within recruiting that 1059 00:38:07,270 --> 00:38:05,599 advantages are given to women in 1060 00:38:10,870 --> 00:38:07,280 recruitment over men 1061 00:38:12,230 --> 00:38:10,880 and in promotions so 1062 00:38:13,910 --> 00:38:12,240 i don't know if you are aware of the 1063 00:38:15,589 --> 00:38:13,920 things the same things i'm aware of but 1064 00:38:17,270 --> 00:38:15,599 um you know i'm just curious your your 1065 00:38:19,750 --> 00:38:17,280 thoughts on that you know 1066 00:38:21,190 --> 00:38:19,760 are we going too far when we've gotten 1067 00:38:22,310 --> 00:38:21,200 rid of all discrimination they're not 1068 00:38:24,950 --> 00:38:22,320 all discrimination but 1069 00:38:26,790 --> 00:38:24,960 we're saying that discrimination against 1070 00:38:28,230 --> 00:38:26,800 women is wrong 1071 00:38:30,230 --> 00:38:28,240 women should be allowed in the military 1072 00:38:33,270 --> 00:38:30,240 as long as they're able to meet the same 1073 00:38:34,470 --> 00:38:33,280 standards as the men but to the point 1074 00:38:37,109 --> 00:38:34,480 where 1075 00:38:40,150 --> 00:38:37,119 we're going to promote a woman over a 1076 00:38:41,829 --> 00:38:40,160 man simply because of her sex 1077 00:38:43,990 --> 00:38:41,839 i don't have any direct knowledge of 1078 00:38:45,510 --> 00:38:44,000 that so you are telling me something i 1079 00:38:47,910 --> 00:38:45,520 don't know 1080 00:38:50,310 --> 00:38:47,920 i think for a long time women were not 1081 00:38:52,390 --> 00:38:50,320 promoted simply because of their gender 1082 00:38:54,150 --> 00:38:52,400 who met the qualifications that i've 1083 00:38:56,390 --> 00:38:54,160 definitely seen 1084 00:38:59,190 --> 00:38:56,400 i think if you had two male candidates 1085 00:39:03,190 --> 00:38:59,200 who were equally qualified for a job 1086 00:39:04,790 --> 00:39:03,200 the person you know on the board or 1087 00:39:06,390 --> 00:39:04,800 whoever is going to decide who gets 1088 00:39:08,310 --> 00:39:06,400 promoted is going to promote the person 1089 00:39:09,430 --> 00:39:08,320 they like the best 1090 00:39:11,670 --> 00:39:09,440 i don't know if you would call that 1091 00:39:14,790 --> 00:39:11,680 discrimination or not 1092 00:39:17,349 --> 00:39:14,800 if they're both qualified 1093 00:39:17,990 --> 00:39:17,359 but i would say that i think the right 1094 00:39:21,270 --> 00:39:18,000 way to go 1095 00:39:23,670 --> 00:39:21,280 is simply the best qualified person 1096 00:39:25,910 --> 00:39:23,680 i mean it just is when when we're 1097 00:39:29,030 --> 00:39:25,920 looking at 1098 00:39:32,390 --> 00:39:29,040 life on the line a lot of money 1099 00:39:34,150 --> 00:39:32,400 a lot of power and control a lot of you 1100 00:39:36,069 --> 00:39:34,160 know complex pieces once you start to 1101 00:39:36,950 --> 00:39:36,079 get up above the field grade officer 1102 00:39:38,790 --> 00:39:36,960 level 1103 00:39:40,390 --> 00:39:38,800 yeah it's got to be best qualified 1104 00:39:42,790 --> 00:39:40,400 person and i think when we break down 1105 00:39:44,470 --> 00:39:42,800 the barriers to be able to say 1106 00:39:46,550 --> 00:39:44,480 if you're best qualified as a woman you 1107 00:39:49,109 --> 00:39:46,560 can get promoted 1108 00:39:49,829 --> 00:39:49,119 then we're going to solve some of those 1109 00:39:51,349 --> 00:39:49,839 issues 1110 00:39:53,670 --> 00:39:51,359 you know once people are able to enter 1111 00:39:55,109 --> 00:39:53,680 those areas and and compete 1112 00:39:57,030 --> 00:39:55,119 fairly but i think it's still going to 1113 00:39:59,750 --> 00:39:57,040 be fair competition i don't i don't know 1114 00:40:01,349 --> 00:39:59,760 that promoting anybody based on genders 1115 00:40:03,349 --> 00:40:01,359 is ever right if it wasn't right when it 1116 00:40:05,510 --> 00:40:03,359 was a man it just can't be 1117 00:40:06,630 --> 00:40:05,520 uh when it's a woman or for any other 1118 00:40:09,670 --> 00:40:06,640 reason at all 1119 00:40:10,390 --> 00:40:09,680 yeah well i i agree with you 100 i mean 1120 00:40:12,069 --> 00:40:10,400 for the reasons 1121 00:40:13,670 --> 00:40:12,079 you say it i mean most important thing 1122 00:40:16,150 --> 00:40:13,680 is we're talking about 1123 00:40:17,829 --> 00:40:16,160 lives on the line huge money on the line 1124 00:40:19,990 --> 00:40:17,839 defense of our country on the line 1125 00:40:21,109 --> 00:40:20,000 so best qualified should always be the 1126 00:40:23,349 --> 00:40:21,119 case and and 1127 00:40:25,430 --> 00:40:23,359 you know yeah it's going to take a while 1128 00:40:27,670 --> 00:40:25,440 for women to ascend 1129 00:40:29,510 --> 00:40:27,680 into higher roles because they're 1130 00:40:31,829 --> 00:40:29,520 relatively new to the military 1131 00:40:33,270 --> 00:40:31,839 a good comparison is in in the practice 1132 00:40:35,030 --> 00:40:33,280 of law you know 1133 00:40:36,950 --> 00:40:35,040 law schools are now made up of majority 1134 00:40:38,870 --> 00:40:36,960 women over men 1135 00:40:40,630 --> 00:40:38,880 but i've seen articles written oh my 1136 00:40:43,109 --> 00:40:40,640 gosh why are partners 1137 00:40:44,950 --> 00:40:43,119 in law firms primarily men it's like 1138 00:40:46,309 --> 00:40:44,960 well because to be a part of the law 1139 00:40:47,750 --> 00:40:46,319 firm you have to have been practicing 1140 00:40:50,710 --> 00:40:47,760 for a long time 1141 00:40:53,270 --> 00:40:50,720 and they're going to age out eventually 1142 00:40:54,950 --> 00:40:53,280 and as women come through the ranks 1143 00:40:56,470 --> 00:40:54,960 you are going to see much higher 1144 00:40:58,470 --> 00:40:56,480 percentages but 1145 00:41:00,069 --> 00:40:58,480 but be patient it's going to have we we 1146 00:41:02,150 --> 00:41:00,079 don't need to 1147 00:41:03,510 --> 00:41:02,160 suddenly say oh no we need the numbers 1148 00:41:06,150 --> 00:41:03,520 to be the same today 1149 00:41:07,030 --> 00:41:06,160 so starting now we're going to give an 1150 00:41:09,109 --> 00:41:07,040 advantage to 1151 00:41:10,069 --> 00:41:09,119 women and becoming partner over the man 1152 00:41:12,710 --> 00:41:10,079 or in 1153 00:41:13,430 --> 00:41:12,720 in any promotions in the military it's 1154 00:41:15,990 --> 00:41:13,440 um 1155 00:41:16,630 --> 00:41:16,000 it's just you know it's demoralizing i 1156 00:41:18,630 --> 00:41:16,640 think to 1157 00:41:19,990 --> 00:41:18,640 the person he's passed over and i think 1158 00:41:22,470 --> 00:41:20,000 for the person who gets the job 1159 00:41:23,430 --> 00:41:22,480 where it's kind of obvious that it was 1160 00:41:25,589 --> 00:41:23,440 because i'm 1161 00:41:27,030 --> 00:41:25,599 a woman or for that matter a particular 1162 00:41:29,750 --> 00:41:27,040 race because 1163 00:41:30,150 --> 00:41:29,760 these practices don't just involve women 1164 00:41:32,790 --> 00:41:30,160 and 1165 00:41:33,430 --> 00:41:32,800 involves uh affirmative action with 1166 00:41:35,589 --> 00:41:33,440 races 1167 00:41:37,430 --> 00:41:35,599 i mean who wants to feel like they were 1168 00:41:38,710 --> 00:41:37,440 promoted based on anything other than 1169 00:41:42,470 --> 00:41:38,720 the merits 1170 00:41:44,150 --> 00:41:42,480 no absolutely and you know that's 1171 00:41:45,670 --> 00:41:44,160 i have no doubt that the military 1172 00:41:48,390 --> 00:41:45,680 sometimes does things 1173 00:41:49,910 --> 00:41:48,400 that aren't their official policy right 1174 00:41:51,829 --> 00:41:49,920 because that's not an official military 1175 00:41:54,230 --> 00:41:51,839 policy they'll say they have 1176 00:41:56,150 --> 00:41:54,240 uh no policy like that they have no 1177 00:41:58,069 --> 00:41:56,160 quotas 1178 00:42:00,630 --> 00:41:58,079 so what it is they're doing in practice 1179 00:42:02,390 --> 00:42:00,640 right now that 1180 00:42:04,790 --> 00:42:02,400 you're talking about like i said i'm not 1181 00:42:06,309 --> 00:42:04,800 i'm not really sure but that 1182 00:42:08,069 --> 00:42:06,319 that doesn't seem like it actually 1183 00:42:09,109 --> 00:42:08,079 solves the problem because we have to 1184 00:42:10,950 --> 00:42:09,119 make sure you know 1185 00:42:13,030 --> 00:42:10,960 just like first day of basic training if 1186 00:42:14,950 --> 00:42:13,040 everybody's really green 1187 00:42:16,230 --> 00:42:14,960 and we're just gonna have to we're gonna 1188 00:42:19,270 --> 00:42:16,240 have to hold the line on that 1189 00:42:21,030 --> 00:42:19,280 but also we have to look at the policies 1190 00:42:22,630 --> 00:42:21,040 uh that make women leave before they 1191 00:42:24,069 --> 00:42:22,640 reach those ranks because some of it is 1192 00:42:26,150 --> 00:42:24,079 not just time 1193 00:42:28,150 --> 00:42:26,160 you know women have been serving in real 1194 00:42:29,190 --> 00:42:28,160 roles since you know at least vietnam 1195 00:42:31,349 --> 00:42:29,200 there's been 1196 00:42:32,950 --> 00:42:31,359 plenty of decades for people to reach 1197 00:42:34,470 --> 00:42:32,960 those ranks but there are some other 1198 00:42:37,349 --> 00:42:34,480 factors involved too 1199 00:42:39,270 --> 00:42:37,359 how do we handle the movements of a dual 1200 00:42:42,069 --> 00:42:39,280 military couple 1201 00:42:44,069 --> 00:42:42,079 when you have a husband and wife how 1202 00:42:45,510 --> 00:42:44,079 often can they be at the same station so 1203 00:42:47,829 --> 00:42:45,520 that choosing their career doesn't make 1204 00:42:50,470 --> 00:42:47,839 them live apart most of their lives 1205 00:42:51,109 --> 00:42:50,480 how do they negotiate family maternity 1206 00:42:53,109 --> 00:42:51,119 leave 1207 00:42:55,990 --> 00:42:53,119 and being able to have the other parts 1208 00:42:58,309 --> 00:42:56,000 of life when war is not going on 1209 00:43:00,309 --> 00:42:58,319 you know in order to encourage people to 1210 00:43:01,430 --> 00:43:00,319 be able to stay in and then hold that 1211 00:43:02,950 --> 00:43:01,440 experience and 1212 00:43:04,790 --> 00:43:02,960 and skill and all that time and money 1213 00:43:06,550 --> 00:43:04,800 invested in the training for a person up 1214 00:43:08,550 --> 00:43:06,560 to that point in their career 1215 00:43:09,589 --> 00:43:08,560 instead of always starting over again so 1216 00:43:11,430 --> 00:43:09,599 i think if we can 1217 00:43:12,870 --> 00:43:11,440 look at those policies so that women 1218 00:43:14,710 --> 00:43:12,880 feel like that's even an option 1219 00:43:17,109 --> 00:43:14,720 once they're married and have families 1220 00:43:19,750 --> 00:43:17,119 especially in a dual military couple 1221 00:43:22,870 --> 00:43:19,760 then you know there has been enough time 1222 00:43:25,670 --> 00:43:22,880 if they're encouraged to stay 1223 00:43:26,950 --> 00:43:25,680 yeah no that's a great point and also i 1224 00:43:29,190 --> 00:43:26,960 just would love to see 1225 00:43:31,750 --> 00:43:29,200 tying it back to our prior discussion 1226 00:43:34,870 --> 00:43:31,760 instead of so much time energy 1227 00:43:36,309 --> 00:43:34,880 in into diversity and inclusion which is 1228 00:43:38,309 --> 00:43:36,319 this article i was just reading about 1229 00:43:39,510 --> 00:43:38,319 today about the new chief of diversity 1230 00:43:43,349 --> 00:43:39,520 and inclusion 1231 00:43:44,630 --> 00:43:43,359 in the military um you know i i don't 1232 00:43:46,550 --> 00:43:44,640 know why it's an objective of the 1233 00:43:49,349 --> 00:43:46,560 military to begin with to be 1234 00:43:50,710 --> 00:43:49,359 diverse uh again the objective should be 1235 00:43:54,230 --> 00:43:50,720 to be a 1236 00:43:56,230 --> 00:43:54,240 a a a fighting military that 1237 00:43:57,270 --> 00:43:56,240 destroys the opponent when when 1238 00:44:00,309 --> 00:43:57,280 necessary 1239 00:44:01,190 --> 00:44:00,319 um but all the energy and effort going 1240 00:44:04,870 --> 00:44:01,200 into say 1241 00:44:06,630 --> 00:44:04,880 recruiting women to join the military 1242 00:44:08,470 --> 00:44:06,640 as opposed to just allowing whichever 1243 00:44:10,950 --> 00:44:08,480 number of women want to join to join 1244 00:44:11,910 --> 00:44:10,960 and going actively trying to recruit 1245 00:44:14,470 --> 00:44:11,920 women 1246 00:44:16,069 --> 00:44:14,480 spending that time instead on being 1247 00:44:16,390 --> 00:44:16,079 concerned about our veterans coming back 1248 00:44:17,589 --> 00:44:16,400 and 1249 00:44:20,550 --> 00:44:17,599 making sure they're getting proper 1250 00:44:21,670 --> 00:44:20,560 treatment for things like ptsd and so on 1251 00:44:22,390 --> 00:44:21,680 that we talked about earlier i think 1252 00:44:25,750 --> 00:44:22,400 would be a lot 1253 00:44:26,309 --> 00:44:25,760 better use of their resources well and i 1254 00:44:28,230 --> 00:44:26,319 think it's 1255 00:44:29,910 --> 00:44:28,240 it's probably fair to point out that 1256 00:44:31,109 --> 00:44:29,920 some of those areas that opened up to 1257 00:44:34,390 --> 00:44:31,119 women were certain 1258 00:44:36,630 --> 00:44:34,400 were rooted in a recruitment shortage 1259 00:44:37,750 --> 00:44:36,640 of men who were willing and available to 1260 00:44:39,910 --> 00:44:37,760 do the job 1261 00:44:42,230 --> 00:44:39,920 so they started looking around mid 80s 1262 00:44:44,710 --> 00:44:42,240 90s like hey wait a second 1263 00:44:45,670 --> 00:44:44,720 we don't have a country full filled with 1264 00:44:47,510 --> 00:44:45,680 18 year old 1265 00:44:50,069 --> 00:44:47,520 fit men who really want to join the 1266 00:44:52,309 --> 00:44:50,079 military and they were having problems 1267 00:44:54,309 --> 00:44:52,319 meeting numbers and this idea that hey 1268 00:44:56,790 --> 00:44:54,319 wait women can do this job 1269 00:44:58,550 --> 00:44:56,800 that was also a part of the recruitment 1270 00:45:01,190 --> 00:44:58,560 uh strategy 1271 00:45:02,470 --> 00:45:01,200 for not it wasn't like oh we're we're 1272 00:45:04,230 --> 00:45:02,480 just gonna include women now because 1273 00:45:06,150 --> 00:45:04,240 women are equally capable it was like 1274 00:45:08,150 --> 00:45:06,160 hey we don't have guys 1275 00:45:09,829 --> 00:45:08,160 and i think that's still the case part 1276 00:45:11,510 --> 00:45:09,839 of it might be trying to reach people 1277 00:45:14,069 --> 00:45:11,520 who feel like the military has never 1278 00:45:17,430 --> 00:45:14,079 been a part of their plan 1279 00:45:19,589 --> 00:45:17,440 never seen it as even an option to just 1280 00:45:21,510 --> 00:45:19,599 tap into resources because 1281 00:45:25,109 --> 00:45:21,520 numbers wise i think recruiting is 1282 00:45:28,230 --> 00:45:25,119 always you know going to be an issue 1283 00:45:30,150 --> 00:45:28,240 so that that might be a part of it yeah 1284 00:45:31,750 --> 00:45:30,160 yeah when you're trying to maintain an 1285 00:45:34,870 --> 00:45:31,760 all-volunteer 1286 00:45:38,550 --> 00:45:34,880 military which we've had for a long time 1287 00:45:40,470 --> 00:45:38,560 right now that's not always 1288 00:45:41,910 --> 00:45:40,480 easy i'm not sure exactly where they 1289 00:45:43,270 --> 00:45:41,920 stand right now on being able to recruit 1290 00:45:45,589 --> 00:45:43,280 the sufficient 1291 00:45:47,750 --> 00:45:45,599 numbers but that's an ongoing debate 1292 00:45:49,589 --> 00:45:47,760 whether or not there should be 1293 00:45:51,190 --> 00:45:49,599 some type of a draft or requirement 1294 00:45:52,390 --> 00:45:51,200 certainly there's lots of countries out 1295 00:45:54,950 --> 00:45:52,400 there where 1296 00:45:56,550 --> 00:45:54,960 serving in the military is a civic duty 1297 00:45:59,510 --> 00:45:56,560 that everyone must do men 1298 00:45:59,990 --> 00:45:59,520 and women i know israel for sure men and 1299 00:46:02,950 --> 00:46:00,000 women 1300 00:46:04,630 --> 00:46:02,960 all all serve in the military i think 1301 00:46:07,829 --> 00:46:04,640 it's a great idea personally 1302 00:46:08,790 --> 00:46:07,839 just because it gives people a real idea 1303 00:46:11,829 --> 00:46:08,800 about 1304 00:46:14,470 --> 00:46:11,839 what it means to give everything up 1305 00:46:15,910 --> 00:46:14,480 for your country for a cause that's 1306 00:46:19,030 --> 00:46:15,920 that's what a patriot does 1307 00:46:22,309 --> 00:46:19,040 i think sometimes right now we can get 1308 00:46:23,270 --> 00:46:22,319 really involved in our own uh you can 1309 00:46:25,030 --> 00:46:23,280 buy the gear 1310 00:46:26,309 --> 00:46:25,040 you can play the games and you can 1311 00:46:27,990 --> 00:46:26,319 almost feel like you're there 1312 00:46:29,430 --> 00:46:28,000 but you're not there you know what i 1313 00:46:32,069 --> 00:46:29,440 mean for being 1314 00:46:34,470 --> 00:46:32,079 being a patriot or being a soldier and 1315 00:46:35,990 --> 00:46:34,480 those metaphors especially war metaphors 1316 00:46:37,589 --> 00:46:36,000 are used all the time 1317 00:46:39,030 --> 00:46:37,599 in areas that don't have anything to do 1318 00:46:40,150 --> 00:46:39,040 with the military but that's not what 1319 00:46:42,870 --> 00:46:40,160 it's about 1320 00:46:45,349 --> 00:46:42,880 i think that would be a very good taste 1321 00:46:48,950 --> 00:46:45,359 of reality for lots of folks 1322 00:46:50,309 --> 00:46:48,960 to and and helpful when we're even 1323 00:46:52,870 --> 00:46:50,319 thinking about getting involved in a 1324 00:46:56,230 --> 00:46:52,880 conflict to be able to have 1325 00:46:57,589 --> 00:46:56,240 a voting public who can say i know what 1326 00:46:59,670 --> 00:46:57,599 that sacrifice is like 1327 00:47:01,270 --> 00:46:59,680 just a little bit i just did a year i 1328 00:47:03,589 --> 00:47:01,280 just did two years so i have 1329 00:47:05,990 --> 00:47:03,599 a little bit of an idea about what i'm 1330 00:47:09,430 --> 00:47:06,000 asking somebody else to do right now i 1331 00:47:11,589 --> 00:47:09,440 i think that's not a bad idea 1332 00:47:13,910 --> 00:47:11,599 yeah we could use a bit more common 1333 00:47:16,710 --> 00:47:13,920 purpose in this country right now 1334 00:47:17,670 --> 00:47:16,720 everybody's in their own camps not 1335 00:47:21,589 --> 00:47:17,680 working together 1336 00:47:24,549 --> 00:47:21,599 on anything yeah no i agree that 1337 00:47:26,790 --> 00:47:24,559 certainly brings it back to uh 1338 00:47:27,750 --> 00:47:26,800 this is one american ideal what what is 1339 00:47:30,230 --> 00:47:27,760 it we should we 1340 00:47:32,470 --> 00:47:30,240 should all be about what is it we should 1341 00:47:34,390 --> 00:47:32,480 all stand for i mean i think about 1342 00:47:36,710 --> 00:47:34,400 you know the army values something that 1343 00:47:39,190 --> 00:47:36,720 we wore on a dog tag around our necks 1344 00:47:42,069 --> 00:47:39,200 with our names and our blood types 1345 00:47:44,710 --> 00:47:42,079 you know loyalty duty respect selfless 1346 00:47:46,309 --> 00:47:44,720 service honor integrity personal courage 1347 00:47:48,470 --> 00:47:46,319 those are our army about they should be 1348 00:47:50,710 --> 00:47:48,480 american values thank you again 1349 00:47:53,030 --> 00:47:50,720 to myoco you can check out her book all 1350 00:47:53,829 --> 00:47:53,040 i could be the story of a woman warrior 1351 00:47:56,069 --> 00:47:53,839 in iraq 1352 00:47:57,430 --> 00:47:56,079 on amazon thank you to our producer 1353 00:47:58,710 --> 00:47:57,440 michael parker thank you all for 1354 00:48:04,790 --> 00:47:58,720 listening we'll be back soon with 1355 00:48:08,069 --> 00:48:06,309 thank you for listening to the truth 1356 00:48:11,589 --> 00:48:08,079 show with jim reslow 1357 00:48:13,829 --> 00:48:11,599 you can find us at hiddentruthshow.com 1358 00:48:14,630 --> 00:48:13,839 follow us on facebook twitter and 1359 00:48:17,510 --> 00:48:14,640 instagram 1360 00:48:19,910 --> 00:48:17,520 the hidden truth show join us again next 1361 00:48:20,549 --> 00:48:19,920 week for another episode of hidden truth